Hi everyone!
Today’s blogpost is the second and final part of the “Top Tips for Pupillage Interviews” series. In case you missed it, the first part of the series included tips from eight silks. These tips can be accessed from here.
The silks gave a "view from the top", and we will now hear from eight juniors and established practitioners who have more recently been on the receiving end of the pupillage interview process.
A huge thank you to Sarah, Narinder, Sahar, Jennifer, Will, Mani, Mathias and Joel for their time and invaluable contributions below.
Now, let us dive right into their tips.
SARAH’S TOP TIPS:
Tip 1: Preparation for the interview. Re-read your application. The information you put in there is the only material the panel of interviewers has about you. Luckily, you also happen to be an expert on it, since it is your life. When you do this, ensure that you consider how each activity demonstrates that you meet the criteria the set of chambers is looking for.
Tip 2: Dressing for the interview. This is an easy thing for you to control and to delete from your worry list. Give yourself a few days before the interview to decide what you are going to wear, including your shoes, and that the outfit is in a state that you are happy with. It sounds perhaps trivial, but you do not want to be flustered on the morning of your interview because something is in the wash. Delete this distraction from your list.
Tip 3: Getting to the interview. This is also an easy thing to control. But it can add enormous stress if you get it wrong. For interviews in person, at least a few days before the interview, check on a map where the interview is to be held, and how you get there from the place you are staying the night before. If you are at all concerned about this, and if you have time, plan to walk past the location in advance. If the interview is to be held online, prepare the place that you will take the interview (including your seat, your glass of water, and your power supply to the device you will be using) and remove all sources of noise that you can control. The fewer surprises there are, the better you can perform on the bits that matter. And remember, plan to get to the interview (whether in person or online) earlier than even you think you need. You never know when there might be a tube strike, or a technical glitch.
Tip 4: During the interview. Others have provided tips on content, so this tip focuses on ways to make yourself as comfortable as possible. Three sub tips here:
For in-person interviews, always accept the offer of a glass of water, or pour one for yourself when prompted. And help yourself to it during the interview – that is expected. You never know when your mouth might dry up. For interviews at home, sort out your glass of water in advance.
Make sure you are comfortably settled in your chair before you commence – once you get going, fidgeting can be distracting both for you and for the panel.
Posture and presence – sit up, keep hands away from your face, and engage with the panel. If you have long hair, tie it back. Although the panel are interested in your answers, it is always better to come from someone who is able to look the interviewer in the eye with a confident posture, as opposed to someone hunched over, looking at the table, or twiddling with their hair.
Tip 5: After the interview.
Although you will inevitably walk out of the interview and reflect on your performance, which can be a healthy habit throughout this career, do not descend to berating yourself on the “bad” bits. Noone has a perfect performance at interview. The panel is looking for the heights to which you can ascend at interview, in order to assess your barrister potential.
An interview can be a stressful thing. Afterwards, and if your schedule permits, it may help to permit yourself a treat or “me” time (and after you have updated your closest family member/friend/colleague on how it went, of course!) People are different, but I always found it helpful to plan to meet non-lawyers after interviews in order to get out of my head and have a discussion about something completely different. Whatever it is that works for you, plan in some recovery time doing something you like.
SAHAR’S TOP TIPS:
The first thing it is important to remember on being invited for interview – you are there on merit. At least one person, probably more, have read your application and seen enough, on paper, to satisfy themselves that you have the credentials to be a pupil barrister. Internalise that reality and use it to feed the confidence you need to project when actually sitting through the interview. So in the same way, here are some of my top tips for interview.
Tip 1: Do not try to sound like a barrister.
Almost everybody has a formal or court voice, that makes sense but some applicants feel the need to use odd phraseology which they think sounds ‘barristerial’ or clever. Most of the time it just sounds odd. Answer every question posed clearly using normal language. I was always told to imagine I was speaking to a slightly hard of hearing war veteran at a garden party; respectful and clear.
Tip 2: This is your interview.
You have the opportunity to control how this goes. As the only person in the room with answers, you can control tempo and even guide where the next questions go, based on how you answer. So if you are asked a question which you would like a moment to reflect on, say “could I just have a moment to consider that, please?” 30 seconds will feel like eternity but it will give you time to collect your thoughts, and it will convey that you are not inclined to knee jerk answers or to panic. Similarly, saying you ‘don’t know’ is also a legitimate answer, rather than needlessly waffling through and stabbing in the dark, any barrister who does that (and there have been many over the years) will soon decide against it. If faced with a competency question you do know the answer to, perhaps try something like “I’m not clear on what the exact answer would be, however, thinking it through, I would suggest….”
Tip 3: Know your application.
You simply have to. Inside out and back to front. Anything in there, be it: a grade, a subject, an achievement, a musical instrument, a language, some work experience, a mentor you’ve mentioned– it is all fair game for questions. You cannot be surprised if somebody on a panel says, “tell me about why you spent time in a commercial law firm but are applying for a family pupillage” or “oh you spent time with Jane Bloggs, she is an old friend – what is the difference between her practice and what we do here?” Answers to questions like this must come easily and should be delivered with confidence.
Tip 4: Understand the advocacy exercise.
Most advocacy exercises are designed to test how your prioritise your arguments, how you deliver them and possibly how you withstand interjections. Whether it is pre-prepared or given to you 15 minutes before hand, try to understand the key aspects of the facts before you. Work out what your best arguments are and lead with those. Have the confidence not to make points which are weak, simply because they can be made. When questioned, answer the points raised immediately. Do not defer them or ignore them, judges don’t appreciate that and neither will a panel. Stand your ground but do not be dogmatic. If there are sensible and appropriate concessions to be made, demonstrate that you are pragmatic enough as an advocate to recognise that by making them.
Tip 5: Try to demonstrate who you are.
Most pupillages are offered with a view to tenancy. That means that, if successful, you could be working around these people for many years to come. When it gets to the business end of the selection process, panels are often deciding between candidates who can all do the job. Cultural fit and alignment can sometimes tip the balance. Humour is a delicate thing in interview but personality should be less so. These are human beings and it helps if they like you, or see you as likeable. “Client will like her” or “juries will respond to him” are comments I’ve heard over the years. Talking in an effusive and engaging manner throughout will allow those parts of your personality to shine through.
Finally, let me say this: the attainment of pupillage is not a sprint (for most). It is a marathon. You are very likely to fail multiple times and there is no shame in that, provided you are learning each time. Chambers don’t always give feedback, so it is on you, through introspection, like a barrister on their own at court, to work out what is going wrong and improve. The Inns have fantastic education departments and should be your first port of call for additional help.
Narinder’s top tips:
Tip 1: Own your accomplishments. In preparation for competency-based questions think laterally about how you’ve demonstrated the skills that are being assessed. Be a lawyer about it: draw from the range of your experiences and achievements to marshal your best evidence of times when you’ve shone (including in non-legal contexts or situations that were less than glamorous).
Tip 2: Explain your reasoning. When you’re presented with a problem question or point of principle to discuss, don’t panic if you’re not sure what the ‘right’ answer is: chances are, there isn’t one. The key skill in these sorts of questions is to reach a view as to the stronger position to take, and to be able to articulate clearly and persuasively why that is a sound conclusion.
Tip 3: Keep an open mind. Your interviewers are likely to probe views you state and conclusions you reach. Listen carefully to what they are asking, and try to work out the implications of it. Sometimes something that comes across like a counterargument may actually be a point in your favour. If you realise you made a mistake in your original analysis, don’t be afraid to acknowledge that.
Tip 4: Pause if needed. If you get stuck on a question it’s far better to stop and think how best to respond, than to launch straight into a hasty answer which unravels when tested. It’s unlikely that you’ll lose marks for displaying the maturity and sense to ask for a little time to gather your thoughts (or for clarification if you didn’t quite understand what was being asked).
Tip 5: Seize the opportunity. If you get a particularly tricky question, keep in mind that it isn’t intended as a tripwire to catch you out – but as a chance for you to demonstrate how skilfully you can navigate a problem on the spot. Calm your nerves by remembering that you’ve got this far because the place you’ve applied to is confident in your abilities and they want you to progress further.
JENNIFER’S TOP TIPS:
Tip 1: Preparation. Re-read through your application, have a think about what ‘holes’ there may be that you might get asked about. Think about answers to obvious questions that you might get asked during interviews such as why you want to be a barrister, what interesting developments there have been in the areas in which the chambers you are applying to specialises, challenges facing the bar, an example of when you have persuaded someone of something etc.
Tip 2: Exercises. If the interview involves an exercise then prepare for it like you would do an exam. Think carefully about time management to make sure you get through everything. Also keep in mind that there are likely to be points for your advocacy and presentation skills so be strict with yourself to leave time to think up a good structure and even practice your first sentence or two so you can start off fluently.
Tip 3: Nerves (1). Everyone is nervous, it is expected. However, the job does involve a degree of being able to overcome nerves when presenting to make sure that clients feel confident in us. If nerves tend to impact heavily on you, try to get as much practice in as you can in situations that make you feel nervous. Ask as many people as you can to give you a mock interview – friends, family or friends on your law degree course or BPTC (you can take it in turns), or a mentor via the Inns. Speak up in seminars when you might otherwise keep quiet to get practice in being fluent even when you feel nervous.
Tip 4: Nerves (2). There are practical things you can do to reduce adrenaline on the day – avoid caffeine (the nerves will make you jumpy enough), get some exercise in the morning, put on some up-beat songs on your way in, take deep breaths, pace yourself while you are speaking to make yourself feel in control, do a power pose for a minute in the bathroom before you go in! It will be different for everyone but find the thing that makes you feel at your best and you will be able to use it on your first day in court… and first day in the Supreme Court when you get there.
Tip 5: Be yourself and remember it is a two-way process. You have to spend a year doing pupillage and, all being well, could be a tenant in chambers for a long time. You want to end up at a set that is a good fit. This is most likely to be achieved if you are yourself and if you also pay attention to whether the people who are interviewing you and the approach they take are likely to suit you.
WILL’S TOP TIPS:
Tip 1: Understand the question. If you don’t understand the question put, it is much better to clarify it, rather than to try to answer the question you think might be being asked. The damage that can be done from trying to save face by answering a question you don’t understand is far greater than what might feel like a momentary discomfort in seeking further explanation or clarity from the panel.
Tip 2: Don’t assume the panel is right. Pupillage interviews are designed to be testing. Panels will routinely (and deliberately) adopt a stance with which you disagree (or think is wrong). The panel will be interested in seeing how you treat different takes on a problem: where you might be flexible or concede a point; compared with where you stick to your guns. If your position has become untenable and you need to concede, then explain why so the panel can check your reasoning rather than run the risk of them assuming you’ve backed down because you can’t handle being challenged. Still, there is nothing wrong with disagreeing with the panel as long as the basis for your position is logical and coherently presented. At the same time, a pupillage interview is not The Apprentice. Be polite and respectful.
Tip 3: Structure your answers. There is real benefit in taking a moment to think about the form your answer will take. The substance is (of course) key, but the substance needs to be persuasively presented. Pause. Construct the answer in your head. Three points (with best point first) is often about right, but don’t be wedded to your structure either; you may be interrupted and need to take a detour. Try to get back onto your path afterward (if it still seems appropriate).
Tip 4: Cut down your thinking sounds/words. A pupillage interview should be intellectually challenging (if it is not, then you are either a genius or it’s not going very well because the panel doesn’t want to stretch you). You will need to think. We all make thinking sounds or pepper our speech which otiose words (“like”; “at the end of the day”) when stuck. “Um” was my go-to. Try to cut or reduce these and replace them with a pause. Pausing to think will calm you down and sound much more professional than umming and erring through the interview. Don’t worry if a pause feels like an eternal silence to you; chances are it won’t to the panel.
Tip 5: Enjoy it. You are a person being interviewed by other people. Nobody in the room is a robot. If you think you’re getting on with the panel (or a member of it) and you’re enjoying the challenge of the interview, then the chances are they like you too. Best to save your finest gags for another time, but there is nothing wrong with relishing the experience and that coming across in your performance.
MANI’S TOP TIPS:
Tip 1: Research. Be on top of the set that you are interviewing with. An interview is your opportunity to showcase that you want to be part of that set and if you can tailor your answers to perhaps the ethos of that chambers, or the work they undertake then this will be impressive. Further, if you are asked about a case of interest for example, you will be in a better position to meaningfully engage with the panel if you pick a case that members of that set have been involved in.
Tip 2: Be on top of your application. Some sets may focus a few questions on your application. We all know that pupillage applications limit the number of words you can give for each answer. Perhaps, you have a point or an experience you would wish to expand upon if you are asked to talk more about something that appears on your application. Have a look at your answers and experiences and be prepared to expand on it if necessary.
Tip 3: Current affairs. Read what is happening in the news in the event that you are asked to share your opinion or provide critical analysis of an issue that has recently engaged public debate.
Tip 4: Expect the unexpected. Most interviews for pupillage will test your ability to think on your feet. You cannot prepare for every competency question however, you can practice answering questions with a friend or family member. It is important you prepare yourself to answer a tricky question where you will have to think on your feet. An interview enables the panel to get to know you, so expect questions which are aimed to achieve this.
Tip 5: Be on top of the area(s) of law. If you are applying for a specialist pupillage, I would strongly recommend that you stay on top of any recent or meaningful developments in the law over the past 12-months, or any areas of the law that may perhaps require some level of reform. Be prepared to answer the significance of the case/development, whether you agree with it or not and its impact.
MATHIAS’S TOP TIPS:
Tip 1: Know your CV. You may think that you know your own CV and experiences better than anyone else, but it is all too easy to forget the details in the heat of the moment, be it cases you have worked on during mini-pupillage or arguments you have run in a moot. Refreshing your memory before an interview is therefore essential, as you are inevitably going to be asked to elaborate on particular aspects of your CV. It will also enable you to give clear and structured answers, which is generally the mark of a polished advocate and a good candidate.
Tip 2: Know your intended practice areas. This should in any event be a prerequisite for a pupillage gateway form, but it takes on an added significance for interviews, as you may well be asked to talk about a topical legal issue / development for the relevant practice areas, and you will certainly be asked about your motivations for choosing chambers’ specialism(s) and how you see your practice developing in your early years of tenancy. Keep yourself up-to-date with the latest case law and other developments, and you should make this a habit from day one, as it can be a struggle if you do this last-minute. At the same time, you should carefully consider the bread and butter work that juniors are expected to do and why / how that interests you, so as to show that you have a clear-eyed view of what day-to-day practice will be like.
Tip 3: Know your core legal subjects. A common issue which can sink an interview is the inability to demonstrate a proficiency in basic legal principles relevant to your practice area (e.g. basic principles contract and tort law if you are applying to a commercial set), especially when asked to opine on the legal issues arising from a short problem questions. If you feel that your legal knowledge has gotten a bit rusty since your LLB exams, then it is crucial that you brush up on those topics so that you will be sufficiently comfortable to identify key legal issues and grapple with convoluted questions of law and fact when presented with a legal problem at an interview. Equally, you should be sufficiently aware of common ethical issues under the BSB Handbook.
Tip 4: Know your own limits / weaknesses. As a flip side to thinking about things that you might be asked about, it is also important to be clear about what you do not know or have not done well on. The worst thing to do is to try to speculate when you genuinely do not know or understand an issue, or to try to sugar-coat the less palatable aspects of your CV. The reality is that you will always be caught out one way or another, and it is better to simply acknowledge that you do not know about what you are being tested on, or that you have not done as well as you should in a particular exam or moot. The key is to get back on your feet and recover from that, and show that you have learned from your experiences and are capable of doing better.
Tip 5: Know what makes you an interesting person. Ultimately, you want to come across as someone who is well-rounded, interesting and good to work with. You will be working closely with members of chambers in the years to come, so this can be an important factor for distinguishing between candidates who look equally good on paper. Therefore, diversify your interests and show a bit of character and individuality in your interview answers, especially when asked about non-legal questions (e.g. “which film/literary character will you most likely be?”) which may sound random at first sight, but are in fact excellent opportunities for you to engage your audience and build a rapport with your interviewers.
JOEL’S TOP TIPS:
Tip 1: Rest. The interview season can be brutal, especially if you are doing it alongside exams, full-time work and/or other commitments. Pupillage interviews themselves are intense. I cannot stress how important it is to have a good rest the night before to maximise your chances of walking into that room with a clear head. It will also help with the nerves.
Tip 2: Pick three things that you want to make sure the panel know about you by the time the interview is over. Have these on your mind as you walk into the room and work them into the interview (naturally) where you can.
Tip 3: Silence is your friend. I know you are applying for a job where people will have to listen to the sound of your voice (and this probably excites you) but do not be afraid to pause, think and embrace the silence during an interview. Thinking before you speak will help your answers and also comes across more barristerial. I understand judges also appreciate this in court.
Tip 4: Keep a note. As somebody who went through this process more than once and did many interviews, I found it really helpful to write down the questions I was asked immediately after the interview. It helped me think through how I would answer the same question if asked again and made it much easier to prepare the following year.
Tip 5: Don’t dwell. Some interviews just will not go the way you hoped. You will think of the perfect answer on your out of the room. The truth is, most of us are pretty bad at judging the way something is going while in the thick of the stress of it all. Once the interview is over, go and do something you enjoy. Let the process take care of the rest. Do not let a bad performance or result ruin your chances with another Chambers.
Many thanks to all the barristers for their contributions once again.
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Good luck for your interviews!